More M16 complaining over at whirlpool this morning!
No one is asking it to be nerfed into oblivion, and i doubt Dice will flap that up again. Just make it’s reload speed consistent with other rifles at least, atm it’s like infinite ext mags, OR maybe add .1 to left recoil.
Powerslave118 writes here
Reload time is fine.
trial by power writes here
I don’t know if reload time is fine, but I think the shooty characteristics of the gun are what make it good and reload is a bonus.
I think trying to have a “do everything” weapon is a bad idea, it either ends up being useless or too useful. It also becomes the go-to gun for the competitive better people, even if it is not amazingly awesome. This exacerbates the problem (real or imagined) by the general community because they are being killed by the gun in question regularly. However because it is being used by a subset of the player base that would kill them anyway it appears to be overpowered, OP or whatever you want to call it.
Personally I don’t really care – However I question the existance of the M416 when the M16A3 is available. Both seem to be trying to be all rounders, yet the M16A3 is “better”. I think the easiest solution would be to change one of them to be completely different, possibly useless and either nerf the M16 into the M416 or keep the M416.
The M416 is a ncie all around weapon but the lower rate of fire makes it slightly less beasty.
I would much rather see someone die by my AN-94 than the ‘typical OP M16A3’.
Powerslave118 writes here
To give context. The M16 (Specifically the M16A3) is considered by some to be overpowered (OP), mainly because it performs well at all ranges where other weapons available to assault, or other classes in general. The M16 is meant to be a jack of all trades type weapon and it is not far off. However some think that it is way too good at working electrical, plumbing and carpentry.
Now that was have some context for the whole overpowered thing, I need to vent over the Battlefield 3 guns. Specifically; why are there so many? The weapons are all essentially the same, yet there are thirteen variants of AR for assault to pick from. Weapon mechanics for all are identical; differences being recoil/spread, drop off, ROF and bullet velocity. While these came make weapons fairly different I highly doubt there needs to be thirteen to select from. The exception is of course the AN-94 with its double shot ability, but even then we are not comparing rocket launchers with plasma guns, more plasma guns with ever so slightly different plasma guns.
This is part of the problem.
Back to the jack of all trades itself, the M16
Someone posted on symthic. Short | Medium | Long
M16AA3 7/10 | 8/10 | 7/10
AEK-971 10/10 | 6/10 | 4/10
AN-94 4/10 | 6/10 | 10/10
The numbers are not exactly what they used, but you get the idea. The M16 is rather good at everything, and while it may be beaten in specific circumstances it is without a doubt good enough for most people at all ranges.
This is with attachments of course. Heavy barrel across the board these days is the norm and sights are whatever you want them to be.
Who uses the M16?
A large part of the problem is that the better players use the M16A3. Looking at the table above it is easy to see that the AEK is a little better at close range and the AN-94 is a little better at long range. If you factor player skill into this the better, more experienced gamers selecting the M16 are going to win anyway, because they are better to begin with. Middle of the road bob who picks the AN-94 because it is different and a bit gimmicky is going to get mowed by better players, even at range. Why is that? Because the weapons are really not different enough to matter, he is still an inferior player.
The weapons need to be compared in a vacuum. If you are playing against an identical player then the above table is true. However just because you are using what should be a better weapon at the correct range does not mean you are going to win. The BF3 guns are not different enough for that. The better player will still win the majority of encounters with the M16 at long and medium range over the AN-94.
So I think that at least part of the problem comes down to better players wanting a more reliable, all trades weapon, picking the M16 and then all the slightly less players see M16A3s in their kill feed.
Its not just the M16A3
The same applies the the engineer M4A1, it is basically the best engineer weapon. Because engineer is not played quite as much, especially in a competitive environment this is not as obvious. Plus it is outclassed by the M16 so not as obvious.
The M16 is good at most ranges and the players selecting have superior aim. Battlefield 3 encounters are really short, and locating and putting fire on a target counts a long way towards killing another player. In light of this more experienced players have better situational awareness and will locate, shoot and take down lesser players (using non-M16) before they even have a chance to shoot. Combined with the non-M16 players being less careful with their movement and we end up with a fish-in-a-barrel situation.
The time to kill (TTK) is so short on the BF3 guns that being aware of the other player is such a large advantage, which the better player will have, that the M16 is not the deciding factor here. The better player could be using a pistol (within reason, due to range obviously) and still come out on top.
A few examples.
Moving from corner building to MCOM1 on bazaar. A good player will pick the lesser player out in the market area and be able to shoot them through the stands. If the situations are reversed the lesser player may not even notice the better player approaching.
Covering the market side spawn on bazzar from the tiles spawn behind the blocks/destroyed wall. You can cover that corner with any automatic weapon you want and win, M16 is not needed. It does not matter because the guy peeking from the spawn area is awesome, all you need to do is aim at the corner around head height and unload when they peek. This is what the better player would do.
Coming around a corner into each others faces. The better player is probably aiming the corner, listening for footsteps, ready to shoot. The lesser player is simply walking waiting to react. With the stupidly short TTK on all the weapons the more experienced player is setup ready to kill the other player who is playing 100% on reaction.
So is the M16 Overpowered?
Even with the above I think it is, but it really does not matter. Having choice from 13 assault rifles that may be slightly different to each other adds little to the game over all. Having a gun that everyone uses is good and provides a level playing field. You think it is OP? Fine, go and use it and see how you come out with the above points in mind.
Are you trying to say that the M16 is good being overpowered?!
Sort of. I like the way it provides a baseline for competitive play. While I roll with the AEK more often since it suits my aggressive play style the M16 is good and I can use it if I want.
If you are dying the M16 often it is probably because you are dying to a better player, with better siutational awareness, aim and everything else that goes with being better. You are not dying to the M16 specifically.